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Zappy said:Lithium said:Vicelin said:Lithium said: I think we’re done here.
Why?
Because chickens give birth to eggs.
That question is merely a paradox, each argument in the Chicken versus the Egg and who came first always hold an inherent opposite truth to it.
Dinosaurs came first. Then the egg. Then the chicken.
Everyone knows the chicken has relations with the dinosaurs.
Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said: Course abortion does lead to a general lack of caring whether or not they do get preggers since all they have to do is get that abortion ^_^I know this is a fallacy, I just can’t remember the goddamn name. Nevertheless, it’s a fallacy. Abortion –/–> girls not caring wether they get pregnant or not. It’s absolutely nothing like “whoops, guess I need an abortion, oh well!”…abortion is just like any other medical procedure: it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars and can have terrible side-effects. It’s not a decision made lightly.
For the rich girls aint too much of a problem
So then your statement completely neglects the ones who aren’t, which probably accounts for more then half the abortions in the uninted states. My point still stands.
They can get enough money somehow ^_^
What I’d really like to know is how this relates at all to the difficult emotional and life-changing decision of having or not having a baby. Why would a woman with a restricted or barely livable income carelessly get herself pregnant when she didn’t want to be in the first place and knowing full well that abortions cost hundreds of dollars out of their own paycheck because insurance doesn’t cover it? I really don’t like the assumptions you are making here.
tarheel91 said:Zappy said:tarheel91 said:Zappy said: I agree, I doubt anyone who says “adoption is an option” knows anything about the life of an orphan. Most people do not realize how sad of an experience the life of an orphan is. Of course, a mother is not going to give any love for a child she got from surprise buttsex, and is going to throw that person in a daycare center, and assuming the rapist is in jail. That person does not have any parents. I read some books about this once, one of those include a book called the Great Gilly Hopkins, where a child could grow up in life and find her parents, but then realizes her biological parents do not want anything to do with her. Sad.Wut? Last time I checked, anal couldn’t impregnate anyone. I didn’t know there was someone on the internet naive enough to not know what buttsex actually was. The other thing that angered me was your gross generalization of all rape victims, suggesting that they’re incapable of loving or raising a child. Just because they weren’t planning on having a child doesn’t automatically mean they should or need to have an abortion.
Oh, and I doubt you know anything about orphans either, so please don’t be hypocritical and call out others on the same thing (FYI: fictional novels don’t make you an expert on the subject).
Ok, but my point is, many women do not want to bring up a child that they got from rape.
Rape doesn’t factor into the equation. It doesn’t make them magically hate the baby. What factors into it is their readiness to care and provide for a baby. That is independent of whether someone was raped or was simply knocked up.
Actually, sadly it does. Rape is an extremely traumatic experience, and while every baby may be born with a clean slate and the potential to be nothing like their parents, some women simply can’t emotionally accept the child of their rapist and want absolutely nothing to do with it. That child is a connection to a traumatic experience that they can’t mentally accept, and while it’s always possible to take the high road and overcome the trauma, it’s not always possible nor is it something anyone should expect them to do. I know for a fact that I don’t ever want to go through pregnancy. If I were ever raped and lucky enough to survive to find out that I was pregnant because of it, I couldn’t fathom keeping the child. I just went through a terrible experience and going through a second one just isn’t going to help.
I should probably revise my statement/clarify it. Zappy claimed that the majority of women would feel that way. While I agree some might be so traumatically affected by the situation as to have issues with the child itself, it certainly wouldn’t be the majority of women.
Also, never say never when it comes to having kids. I don’t care how old you are; I’ve heard way too many stories of women changing their minds about that pretty deep in their lives for various reasons (unless you have some health issue, which is a bit different). There’s something about that maternal instinct.
Maternal Instinct is not always apparent in more cases than one would think. And if there is emotional trauma, mental health, age, and/ or just physical disability, you can just forget about it.
Oh oh oh and $$.
I have a teacher who aborted her kid because she didn’t have enough $$ at that time. She said she’ll never abort again though even if there’s a $$ issue. Apparently after abortion there’s this huge guilt that stays with you. ._.
tarheel91 said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said: Course abortion does lead to a general lack of caring whether or not they do get preggers since all they have to do is get that abortion ^_^I know this is a fallacy, I just can’t remember the goddamn name. Nevertheless, it’s a fallacy. Abortion –/–> girls not caring wether they get pregnant or not. It’s absolutely nothing like “whoops, guess I need an abortion, oh well!”…abortion is just like any other medical procedure: it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars and can have terrible side-effects. It’s not a decision made lightly.
For the rich girls aint too much of a problem
So then your statement completely neglects the ones who aren’t, which probably accounts for more then half the abortions in the uninted states. My point still stands.
They can get enough money somehow ^_^
What I’d really like to know is how this relates at all to the difficult emotional and life-changing decision of having or not having a baby. Why would a woman with a restricted or barely livable income carelessly get herself pregnant when she didn’t want to be in the first place and knowing full well that abortions cost hundreds of dollars out of their own paycheck because insurance doesn’t cover it? I really don’t like the assumptions you are making here.
tarheel91 said:Zappy said:tarheel91 said:Zappy said: I agree, I doubt anyone who says “adoption is an option” knows anything about the life of an orphan. Most people do not realize how sad of an experience the life of an orphan is. Of course, a mother is not going to give any love for a child she got from surprise buttsex, and is going to throw that person in a daycare center, and assuming the rapist is in jail. That person does not have any parents. I read some books about this once, one of those include a book called the Great Gilly Hopkins, where a child could grow up in life and find her parents, but then realizes her biological parents do not want anything to do with her. Sad.Wut? Last time I checked, anal couldn’t impregnate anyone. I didn’t know there was someone on the internet naive enough to not know what buttsex actually was. The other thing that angered me was your gross generalization of all rape victims, suggesting that they’re incapable of loving or raising a child. Just because they weren’t planning on having a child doesn’t automatically mean they should or need to have an abortion.
Oh, and I doubt you know anything about orphans either, so please don’t be hypocritical and call out others on the same thing (FYI: fictional novels don’t make you an expert on the subject).
Ok, but my point is, many women do not want to bring up a child that they got from rape.
Rape doesn’t factor into the equation. It doesn’t make them magically hate the baby. What factors into it is their readiness to care and provide for a baby. That is independent of whether someone was raped or was simply knocked up.
Actually, sadly it does. Rape is an extremely traumatic experience, and while every baby may be born with a clean slate and the potential to be nothing like their parents, some women simply can’t emotionally accept the child of their rapist and want absolutely nothing to do with it. That child is a connection to a traumatic experience that they can’t mentally accept, and while it’s always possible to take the high road and overcome the trauma, it’s not always possible nor is it something anyone should expect them to do. I know for a fact that I don’t ever want to go through pregnancy. If I were ever raped and lucky enough to survive to find out that I was pregnant because of it, I couldn’t fathom keeping the child. I just went through a terrible experience and going through a second one just isn’t going to help.
I should probably revise my statement/clarify it. Zappy claimed that the majority of women would feel that way. While I agree some might be so traumatically affected by the situation as to have issues with the child itself, it certainly wouldn’t be the majority of women.
Also, never say never when it comes to having kids. I don’t care how old you are; I’ve heard way too many stories of women changing their minds about that pretty deep in their lives for various reasons (unless you have some health issue, which is a bit different). There’s something about that maternal instinct.
Maybe the reason you’ve heard so many of those stories is because those women in particular have the strength to actually talk about it. Just because you hear from them the most doesn’t mean they are the majority. Most rape victims aren’t very eager to share the experience, and if they choose to terminate the child, even less so. They don’t want anyone to know. They want to start their life over. I’m more convinced that the stories you’ve heard so often are delivered from a minority of rape victims who are blessed with optimism and an outgoing nature, the same type of people who are more willing to share their experiences, which is why you hear from them the most. It just seems so much more likely.
Reve said: Oh oh oh and $$.I have a teacher who aborted her kid because she didn’t have enough $$ at that time. She said she’ll never abort again though even if there’s a $$ issue. Apparently after abortion there’s this huge guilt that stays with you. ._.
That’s entirely dependent on the person. I have two aunts who had abortions, and I’ve talked to them a lot about it, and the only regret they have is that they got pregnant in the first place.
Vicelin said:tarheel91 said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said:Vicelin said:DarkDragoon said: Course abortion does lead to a general lack of caring whether or not they do get preggers since all they have to do is get that abortion ^_^I know this is a fallacy, I just can’t remember the goddamn name. Nevertheless, it’s a fallacy. Abortion –/–> girls not caring wether they get pregnant or not. It’s absolutely nothing like “whoops, guess I need an abortion, oh well!”…abortion is just like any other medical procedure: it costs hundreds to thousands of dollars and can have terrible side-effects. It’s not a decision made lightly.
For the rich girls aint too much of a problem
So then your statement completely neglects the ones who aren’t, which probably accounts for more then half the abortions in the uninted states. My point still stands.
They can get enough money somehow ^_^
What I’d really like to know is how this relates at all to the difficult emotional and life-changing decision of having or not having a baby. Why would a woman with a restricted or barely livable income carelessly get herself pregnant when she didn’t want to be in the first place and knowing full well that abortions cost hundreds of dollars out of their own paycheck because insurance doesn’t cover it? I really don’t like the assumptions you are making here.
tarheel91 said:Zappy said:tarheel91 said:Zappy said: I agree, I doubt anyone who says “adoption is an option” knows anything about the life of an orphan. Most people do not realize how sad of an experience the life of an orphan is. Of course, a mother is not going to give any love for a child she got from surprise buttsex, and is going to throw that person in a daycare center, and assuming the rapist is in jail. That person does not have any parents. I read some books about this once, one of those include a book called the Great Gilly Hopkins, where a child could grow up in life and find her parents, but then realizes her biological parents do not want anything to do with her. Sad.Wut? Last time I checked, anal couldn’t impregnate anyone. I didn’t know there was someone on the internet naive enough to not know what buttsex actually was. The other thing that angered me was your gross generalization of all rape victims, suggesting that they’re incapable of loving or raising a child. Just because they weren’t planning on having a child doesn’t automatically mean they should or need to have an abortion.
Oh, and I doubt you know anything about orphans either, so please don’t be hypocritical and call out others on the same thing (FYI: fictional novels don’t make you an expert on the subject).
Ok, but my point is, many women do not want to bring up a child that they got from rape.
Rape doesn’t factor into the equation. It doesn’t make them magically hate the baby. What factors into it is their readiness to care and provide for a baby. That is independent of whether someone was raped or was simply knocked up.
Actually, sadly it does. Rape is an extremely traumatic experience, and while every baby may be born with a clean slate and the potential to be nothing like their parents, some women simply can’t emotionally accept the child of their rapist and want absolutely nothing to do with it. That child is a connection to a traumatic experience that they can’t mentally accept, and while it’s always possible to take the high road and overcome the trauma, it’s not always possible nor is it something anyone should expect them to do. I know for a fact that I don’t ever want to go through pregnancy. If I were ever raped and lucky enough to survive to find out that I was pregnant because of it, I couldn’t fathom keeping the child. I just went through a terrible experience and going through a second one just isn’t going to help.
I should probably revise my statement/clarify it. Zappy claimed that the majority of women would feel that way. While I agree some might be so traumatically affected by the situation as to have issues with the child itself, it certainly wouldn’t be the majority of women.
Also, never say never when it comes to having kids. I don’t care how old you are; I’ve heard way too many stories of women changing their minds about that pretty deep in their lives for various reasons (unless you have some health issue, which is a bit different). There’s something about that maternal instinct.
Maybe the reason you’ve heard so many of those stories is because those women in particular have the strength to actually talk about it. Just because you hear from them the most doesn’t mean they are the majority. Most rape victims aren’t very eager to share the experience, and if they choose to terminate the child, even less so. They don’t want anyone to know. They want to start their life over. I’m more convinced that the stories you’ve heard so often are delivered from a minority of rape victims who are blessed with optimism and an outgoing nature, the same type of people who are more willing to share their experiences, which is why you hear from them the most. It just seems so much more likely.
You misread what I typed. The first paragraph was addressing rape victims. The second paragraph was addressing your comment of “knowing for a fact [you] don’t ever want to go through pregnancy.”
Both of us are basing our comments entirely from secondhand knowledge, so it’s really hard to say definitively which way it’d go. I’m basing my idea off of the maternal instinct inherent in females. It’s one thing to talk about having an abortion if you’re raped hypothetically. It’s quite another to talk about it when there’s the potential for life/a life (trying to stay out the abortion debate itself) inside of you.
I think one of the main sticking points is where to define “life”… some people say that it’s as soon as the fetus “exists”, and other people don’t define life as starting until the third trimester… :/
My two cents: The major argument pro-Abortionists use is that women who got pregnant from rape shouldn’t be forced to carry their child. Serious cases such as rape or serious threat to the mother’s health make up LESS THAN TWO PERCENT of all abortions. Therefore you CANNOT base an argument FOR abortion SOLELY on *serious* cases.
dee32693 said: Lol I don’t. My one major argument is WOMEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE.This argument only works if you feel the fetus isn’t a living human (and thus has no rights). However, if you think the fetus is a living human, then saying WOMEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE ignores the fundamental right to life the fetus has (trumps right to choose, sorry).
Seriously people, discuss whether or not a fetus is living. That’s the assumption everything hinges on. Everything else is irrelevant.
tarheel91 said:dee32693 said: Lol I don’t. My one major argument is WOMEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE.This argument only works if you feel the fetus isn’t a living human (and thus has no rights). However, if you think the fetus is a living human, then saying WOMEN SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE ignores the fundamental right to life the fetus has (trumps right to choose, sorry).
Seriously people, discuss whether or not a fetus is living. That’s the assumption everything hinges on. Everything else is irrelevant.
But the fetus is technically a minor and thus is unable to make rational decisions for itself, and it is up for the parental units(mother in this case) to decide what’s best 😀
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