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I would stop being stupid in a serious discussion if I were you.
I’m juss sayin’
😛
Anyway, I guess this is over. Give it some time I guess.
tarheel91 said:Joaco said:Nass said: If you don’t get it, don’t rate. Instead ask the writer about what they meant, when they explain themselves then you rate.
Rating without fully understanding is almost as dumb as buying something and not know wtf it does.Not understanding is not limited to the feeling of confusedness, there’s also something called misunderstanding. Because you misunderstand an argument, you may be against it. Because you misunderstand a blog, you may downvote it.
And let me tell you, this is not about why would you change your mind. It’s about the feature being arbitrary and superfluous.Also, vusys, if you wanted to give the “likes” feature more impact, you wouldn’t have let authors vote their own blogs. It is either that, or you being an hypocrite here.
Joa, I speak only for myself, but I’m pretty sure I mirror Vusys’ feelings when I say I welcome constructive criticism. However, the entitled, arrogant way you go about addressing anything you don’t like is immature and inappropriate. You want to be taken seriously? Don’t try to talk like you own the damn place. It just turns people off to you and whatever you’re trying to say. Try talking about stuff in a mature manner, that is, one that is cool and respectful.
There are a variety of reasons the system is set up like it is.
1) As Vusys said, it gives more impact to the voting process. Getting this community to take stuff seriously is kinda hard. We want voting to be an important part of the site. There’s an increased likelyhood that people would dick around with their votes if they could change them at any time. *random person logs onto MSN group* Lol, let’s all downvote Nass’ blogs and make him rage, then we’ll tell him to relax cause we’ll tell him we’ll change it later. I’m not saying that would happen, I’m just given an extreme example of how something loses its importance if it can be changed at any time.
2) It’s easy to mess with the number of likes to various effects (i.e. wait till someone gets on the front page, and then change your upvote to a downvote).
3) QotW. It would be chaos should people ever get competitive. One guy downvotes the other guy who’s right there with him for the most number of likes, despite initially enjoying his blog. Of course, that situation could get worse from there.
4) Similar to 3, people could use their vote for things other than judging to blog. Say somebody gets in an argument with someone else, rages, and changes all their votes to downvotes on all their blogs.
5) It encourages people to write better blogs. If somebody throws out a random three sentence string, they’re going to get downvoted for it, and that’s that. “Fixing” a blog shouldn’t be a viable alternative to writing the blog how it should have been the first time.
6) It encourages people to read the blogs better. You vote can’t be changed after 15 minutes, so you have to make sure you really want to up/down vote something when you go to do so. Liking/disliking isn’t about whether you necessarily agree with the person, it’s about how they presented their thoughts, how they recounted their story, etc. (i.e. David might dislike one of Nass’ blogs because he sees him as bragging about his pot exploits, not simply because it has pot in it).
There are more reasons we talked about that I can’t remember. TL;DR Bryan didn’t just pull this policy out of his ass. Just like the decision to move the sidebar to the right wasn’t arbitrary. The site hasn’t even been live for a week yet, and you’re already complaining about stuff you haven’t even gotten used to. Give it a chance, and if you still don’t like it, you can complain in a couple weeks. Next time, though, please do so in a more respectful manner.
I dislike it as well.
My main point is that it’s never been a problem before. We aren’t a huge community (yet) and the trolls around here usually only do that in a troll blog or in the forums. I’ve never seen a blog that has been a victim of “Likes” removal.
1: This is true, voting is now more vital to a blog’s success.
2: This is a bad point. Blogs will be featured no matter what, there is no Hide feature and there is no filtering options. Front page or not, blogs get read, unless they are one-liners. There is no reason you would intentionally remove a blog from the front page unless you are trolling ,and that is a problem with the user, not the system. Unless the coding works like: (When Likes = 10, Front Page), why not give Front Page Blogs Permanent Front page status? So even if opinions change and the blog gets downvoted, it’ll stay on the “front page” and it’s discussions won’t be treated like they are unworthy of the Page.
3: I also agree with this, but perhaps we can implement a system where blogs with a QotW tag have the 15-minute rule. If not, then I agree with Tarheel, this would be a problem.
4: This is exactly what I DON’T agree with. People should be able to change what they think about a blog, or post, or whatever. Locking in a vote based on the first 15 minutes of judgement is somewhat ridiculous in this case, because of an opinion changes, you SHOULD be able to downvote the blog. And honestly, if someone goes on a downvote rampage through a single person’s blogs, that is, once again, a user problem, not a system problem. That should be a bannable offence.
5: This is also something I agree with, but we are not babies. I am happy when I get 3 Likes and a few comments. I don’t need a “cushion” of Likes to make myself seem important, the whole purpose is to share, not get popular. Better blogs should ALWAYS be encouraged, but not by “locking in” someone’s vote. What if someone new writes a shitty blog, get’s called out, and then spends a good hour fixing it up and making a good one? He’s stuck with -4 votes. That isn’t fair.
6: Again, my opinion stands that people should not get their votes locked in, it’s just a cheap way of saying “That’s it, no more influence for you.” Referencing to point 5, the purpose of a blog is to share. However, if someone misreads, or is skimming through a blog, they shouldn’t get penalized for it. I often access VuTales through school, and I usually don’t have the time to read every single blog. That’s unfair to those who don’t have the time commitment to read an entire blog.
I like the sidebar. I love the new design. But telling people that what they think doesn’t matter after 15 minutes is stupid. Yes, people should make more informed decisions, but this is a (very small) blogging site, we aren’t voting for President.
Honestly, I don’t even vote if I’m not going to upvote it.
Too much of a hassle to remember that if I didn’t like it I’m supposed to downvote it.
I liked the old like or nothing thing, not up or downvoting.Pirkid said:tarheel91 said:Joaco said:Nass said: If you don’t get it, don’t rate. Instead ask the writer about what they meant, when they explain themselves then you rate.
Rating without fully understanding is almost as dumb as buying something and not know wtf it does.Not understanding is not limited to the feeling of confusedness, there’s also something called misunderstanding. Because you misunderstand an argument, you may be against it. Because you misunderstand a blog, you may downvote it.
And let me tell you, this is not about why would you change your mind. It’s about the feature being arbitrary and superfluous.Also, vusys, if you wanted to give the “likes” feature more impact, you wouldn’t have let authors vote their own blogs. It is either that, or you being an hypocrite here.
Joa, I speak only for myself, but I’m pretty sure I mirror Vusys’ feelings when I say I welcome constructive criticism. However, the entitled, arrogant way you go about addressing anything you don’t like is immature and inappropriate. You want to be taken seriously? Don’t try to talk like you own the damn place. It just turns people off to you and whatever you’re trying to say. Try talking about stuff in a mature manner, that is, one that is cool and respectful.
There are a variety of reasons the system is set up like it is.
1) As Vusys said, it gives more impact to the voting process. Getting this community to take stuff seriously is kinda hard. We want voting to be an important part of the site. There’s an increased likelyhood that people would dick around with their votes if they could change them at any time. *random person logs onto MSN group* Lol, let’s all downvote Nass’ blogs and make him rage, then we’ll tell him to relax cause we’ll tell him we’ll change it later. I’m not saying that would happen, I’m just given an extreme example of how something loses its importance if it can be changed at any time.
2) It’s easy to mess with the number of likes to various effects (i.e. wait till someone gets on the front page, and then change your upvote to a downvote).
3) QotW. It would be chaos should people ever get competitive. One guy downvotes the other guy who’s right there with him for the most number of likes, despite initially enjoying his blog. Of course, that situation could get worse from there.
4) Similar to 3, people could use their vote for things other than judging to blog. Say somebody gets in an argument with someone else, rages, and changes all their votes to downvotes on all their blogs.
5) It encourages people to write better blogs. If somebody throws out a random three sentence string, they’re going to get downvoted for it, and that’s that. “Fixing” a blog shouldn’t be a viable alternative to writing the blog how it should have been the first time.
6) It encourages people to read the blogs better. You vote can’t be changed after 15 minutes, so you have to make sure you really want to up/down vote something when you go to do so. Liking/disliking isn’t about whether you necessarily agree with the person, it’s about how they presented their thoughts, how they recounted their story, etc. (i.e. David might dislike one of Nass’ blogs because he sees him as bragging about his pot exploits, not simply because it has pot in it).
There are more reasons we talked about that I can’t remember. TL;DR Bryan didn’t just pull this policy out of his ass. Just like the decision to move the sidebar to the right wasn’t arbitrary. The site hasn’t even been live for a week yet, and you’re already complaining about stuff you haven’t even gotten used to. Give it a chance, and if you still don’t like it, you can complain in a couple weeks. Next time, though, please do so in a more respectful manner.
I dislike it as well.
My main point is that it’s never been a problem before. We aren’t a huge community (yet) and the trolls around here usually only do that in a troll blog or in the forums. I’ve never seen a blog that has been a victim of “Likes” removal.
1: This is true, voting is now more vital to a blog’s success.
2: This is a bad point. Blogs will be featured no matter what, there is no Hide feature and there is no filtering options. Front page or not, blogs get read, unless they are one-liners. There is no reason you would intentionally remove a blog from the front page unless you are trolling ,and that is a problem with the user, not the system. Unless the coding works like: (When Likes = 10, Front Page), why not give Front Page Blogs Permanent Front page status? So even if opinions change and the blog gets downvoted, it’ll stay on the “front page” and it’s discussions won’t be treated like they are unworthy of the Page.
3: I also agree with this, but perhaps we can implement a system where blogs with a QotW tag have the 15-minute rule. If not, then I agree with Tarheel, this would be a problem.
4: This is exactly what I DON’T agree with. People should be able to change what they think about a blog, or post, or whatever. Locking in a vote based on the first 15 minutes of judgement is somewhat ridiculous in this case, because of an opinion changes, you SHOULD be able to downvote the blog. And honestly, if someone goes on a downvote rampage through a single person’s blogs, that is, once again, a user problem, not a system problem. That should be a bannable offence.
5: This is also something I agree with, but we are not babies. I am happy when I get 3 Likes and a few comments. I don’t need a “cushion” of Likes to make myself seem important, the whole purpose is to share, not get popular. Better blogs should ALWAYS be encouraged, but not by “locking in” someone’s vote. What if someone new writes a shitty blog, get’s called out, and then spends a good hour fixing it up and making a good one? He’s stuck with -4 votes. That isn’t fair.
6: Again, my opinion stands that people should not get their votes locked in, it’s just a cheap way of saying “That’s it, no more influence for you.” Referencing to point 5, the purpose of a blog is to share. However, if someone misreads, or is skimming through a blog, they shouldn’t get penalized for it. I often access VuTales through school, and I usually don’t have the time to read every single blog. That’s unfair to those who don’t have the time commitment to read an entire blog.
I like the sidebar. I love the new design. But telling people that what they think doesn’t matter after 15 minutes is stupid. Yes, people should make more informed decisions, but this is a (very small) blogging site, we aren’t voting for President.
Let me try to answer a few things. (Bryan and I talked about this a lot, so I’m sort of paraphrasing the conclusions made. Bryan, feel free to correct anything I screw up.)
2. This feature is designed, not just with the current community in mind, but also a larger one in the future (larger as in everyone doesn’t know the intimate details of everyone else’s lives). In that situation, the idea is to have community opinion decide which gets showcased. Community opinion isn’t limited to positive and apathetic. Thus, a negative opinion should have an impact on what gets front page’d. Along the same train of thought, just because you’re late to the party doesn’t mean your vote shouldn’t count. If you genuinely dislike the blog, and your downvote takes it off the front page, then so be it.
4. This works in conjunction with encouraging people to do it right the first time. If people do it right the first time, you should be able to form that opinion about the blog after reading it the first time, and there shouldn’t really be much that would change it.
5. It’s not just about making you feel good. It’s about letting someone knows what the community likes and dislikes. As I said, fixing a blog shouldn’t be a viable alternative to writing something decent in the first place (see: Zappy).
6. Misreading something is why there’s an interval in the first place. Is it that hard to wait until you finish reading a blog before voting?
Finally, you frequently mention problems with the user vs. the system. Why can’t the system prevent user abuse? That’s the same kind of logic that says a shop shouldn’t worry about shoplifting and let the police handle it because it’s a problem with the person, not the shop. And please don’t misrepresent the situation. No one’s saying what you think doesn’t matter after 15 minutes. Your vote still stays there. The idea is to make people completely read a blog and make an informed vote instead of just throwing it out there. To me, if you’re not sure about a blog, that doesn’t mean you should go ahead and like it anyways and maybe change it later. it means you should hold off on voting until you make up your mind.
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